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	<title>Trust AND Obey &#187; baptism</title>
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	<description>Repent and Believe in Jesus</description>
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		<title>Discernment Q&amp;A &#8211; Part II</title>
		<link>http://tando.org/archives/411</link>
		<comments>http://tando.org/archives/411#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 04:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave Miller</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Discernment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wisdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[baptism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[clouds]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Essential Christian Doctrine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[grilled cheese]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[love]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mary]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[truth]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ucc]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[<p>We now continue the Q &#38; A on Biblical Discernment. I hope you&#8217;ve studied; there is a test at the end. Seriously!</p>
<p>Q. How and when should biblical discernment skills be used?</p>
<p>A. Let’s take the last part of the question first. When should discernment skills be used?</p>
<p>The most important times that they can be used is [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We now continue the Q &amp; A on Biblical Discernment. I hope you&#8217;ve studied; there is a test at the end. Seriously!</p>
<p><strong>Q. How and when should biblical discernment skills be used?</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>A. Let’s take the last part of the question first. When should discernment skills be used?</p>
<p>The most important times that they can be used is when you are listening to a sermon or reading a book or an article on religion, or when you are involved in a conversation about Christianity. When listening to a sermon even your favorite, most trusted minister can get things wrong. If you have studied your bible and have prayed fervently for wisdom you should start to trust your instincts a little more. If a minister says something that doesn’t sound quite right, something that sets off your “Spidey Sense” or that might not be supported by scripture – write it down.</p>
<p>Now we get into the “How?” part of the question. The first thing you should do when you have a question about a sermon is to ask your minister about it. Give him a chance to explain it better. It is possible (hopefully even probable) that you have just misunderstood him. If it is not a misunderstanding, don’t back down if the truth is at stake. Tell him that it still isn’t clear to you. Respectfully ask him to cite the scripture from which he gets his statement. (Acts 17:11) Don’t put him on the spot in front of others and be sure to give him time to research the matter and get back to you when it is convenient. In the meantime, research the matter yourself. Dig into the Bible and research what various commentators have said on the subject. <a href="http://www.blueletterbible.org/" target="_blank">The Blue Letter Bible</a> and <a href="http://www.biblestudytools.com/" target="_blank">Crosswalk.com</a> have excellent Bible study tools available online.</p>
<p>Remember, the whole point is to come to a better understanding of God’s word; for you and for your minister.</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Q. Sounds like a good plan, but what about when you read something that bothers your “Scripture Sense?”</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>A. The same goes for when you are reading a book or an article about religion, write down the statement that strikes you as wrong and take it to your minister or a trusted elder in your church. Ask them to help you understand what is being said. Rely on godly people you trust to guide you to the scripture that explains your question. Oftentimes, researching things on your own will answer your question, but sharing it with a brother in the faith can often help strengthen the discernment skills of both of you.</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Q. What about when you are involved in a conversation about Christianity? It’s not as easy when you’re on the spot and have to defend something controversial.</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>A. That is true. You should rely on what you are certain that you know. Again, don’t back down when the truth is at stake. In the Bible, the main things are the plain things and the plain things are the main things. You should have a solid understanding of the “main things” before you engage anyone in serious discussions relating to Christianity.</p>
<p>Something that should not be forgotten is that you should always be respectful and loving in your dealings with brothers in the faith. We are called to speak the truth in love. (Eph. 4:15) If the question involves an issue that is secondary to <a href="http://www.carm.org/essential-doctrines-of-christianity" target="_blank">Essential Christian Doctrine</a>, be sure to point that out and don’t argue with brothers over issues where we have the freedom to disagree without breaking fellowship.</p></blockquote>
<hr /><strong>Discernment Test #1. What we believe.</strong></p>
<p><strong> </strong>Don&#8217;t get all worked up, this is just a practice test. Take a look at this statement from an American Mainline Protestant church.</p>
<blockquote><p>We believe that the persistent search for God produces an authentic relationship with God, engendering love, strengthening faith, dissolving guilt, and giving life purpose and direction. We believe that all of the baptized ‘belong body and soul to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.’ No matter who – no matter what – &#8230; no matter where we are on life’s journey – we all belong to God and to one worldwide community of faith. All persons baptized – past, present and future – are connected to each other and to God through the sacrament of baptism.</p></blockquote>
<p>On the surface, this looks like a solid theological statement. Who could possibly argue with a persistent search for God or an authentic relationship with God? Who could disagree that baptized people are all part of a worldwide community of faith?</p>
<p>But here are some questions I had after reading it three or four times: Where in the Bible does it say that simply searching for God produces an authentic relationship with Him? Is baptism what binds believers together or is it something else?</p>
<p>John 3:3 states very clearly what is necessary for somebody to have a relationship with God. Searching for knowledge of God is a good thing, but the search doesn’t produce faith or a relationship. Only by repenting and believing can one be born again to new life in Christ Jesus.</p>
<p>And about that baptism thing&#8230; I don’t deny that all believers are part of a worldwide community of faith (aka <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_church" target="_blank">The Invisible Church</a>), but it isn’t a sacrament that makes it happen. Believers’ baptism is an outward sign of an inward change. (Acts 10:44-47) There are probably millions of non-believers who have been baptized. The thief on the cross can attest to the fact that baptism is not absolutely necessary for salvation. (Luke 23:42-43)</p>
<blockquote><p>The above statement is part of the “What We Believe” statement of the United Church of Christ &#8211; <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20070822200952/www.ucc.org/god-is-still-speaking/about/beliefs.html" target="_blank">or at least it was at one time</a>. The UCC changes what they believe the way the wind changes direction in a tornado. This was taken from the UCC’s old website. This statement is not on their current website as far as I can tell. If you have time, read the whole thing. Tell me if I missed the place where it says you have to repent of your sins and believe in Jesus. <a href="http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&amp;friendId=123054763&amp;blogId=303000641" target="_blank">The statement is also available here.</a></p></blockquote>
<hr /><strong>Discernment Test #2. Faces in the Clouds – A message from God.</strong></p>
<p>Watch this video and then read the page at the link below.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" width="425" height="344" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="src" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/B93Ct_lpCyM&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;" /><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/B93Ct_lpCyM&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://nancy38332.webs.com/" target="_blank">Interpretation of the above video.</a></p>
<p>What do you think? Use your discernment skills. Is this a biblical interpretation of the clouds in the video or not? Is it a message from God? Are you sure?</p>
<p>Nancy Bush certainly does seem to know the bible, she even quotes Latin and Greek. She is obviously not an opportunist who sees <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6511148/" target="_blank">the Virgin Mary in a partially eaten grilled cheese sandwich</a> and sells it on eBay for $28,000.</p>
<p>What do your discernment skills tell you? Please post a comment. I’ll try to approve comments within a few hours and once you’ve had one comment approved, your subsequent comments will post immediately.</p>
<p>One last thing: please remember to speak the truth in love. Thanks.</p>
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